BN: You’re fighting Lila dos Santos Furtado in January whose last fight was against Raven Chapman. Is Raven’s performance and result (UD 10) a benchmark for you?
Not really. Raven’s a completely different boxer. I believe I’m a better boxer than Raven. She won quite comfortably, regardless. I know what’s coming and what’s going to be in front of me on January 20 and I believe I box the ears off the girl.
BN: Do you expect to face Raven at some point down the line?
I imagine that’s what the build-up is for. I’m boxing her previous opponent. I’ve got to the point now where it’s quite frustrating and tiring this whole pro-boxing malarkey. I’ve learned that all I can do is train in the gym and deal with what’s in front of me because in previous interviews and on social media I’ve mentioned names. I’ve called people out and nothing gets said back. Nothing gets done about it. So, it gets to the point I end up sitting with (her partner) Lauren [Price] and blow off some steam. I just don’t understand it all if I’m honest. On social media I don’t take on board what gets said, I read it, but I don’t really care. But someone might say, “What’s she done to deserve a shot at Raven Chapman?” or “She needs to earn her shot” and I’m like fucking hell, they don’t have a clue. I can’t really do anything about that. It’d be like banging my head against a brick wall. So, I’ve learned to sit back, let my management team and promotional team work together and hopefully, fingers crossed they get me the fights that need to happen.
BN: Does the sport test your desire to keep boxing or do your ambitions override that?
I’m young and I’m at my peak, well I’m 29 [and] getting on a bit. I feel good in the gym I know that I’m capable of winning a world title, so the ambition is still there. If I stay off social media and I’m in the gym training, then come fight night I’m sound. When I’m getting questions like, “Are you going to face Raven Chapman?”, “Are you going to face Skye Nicolson?”, “Who do you want next?”, I’m fed up answering them because how many times can I say I’m happy to fight them. I can only do so much. I understand me talking about it would be good because it might build up a rivalry. When the fights are over the line, I’ll talk about it and do my part. But at the minute I don’t want to come across obsessed with people that aren’t going to fight me. It’s a bit of a difficult one because in the amateurs, if you want that gold medal you’ve got to face everybody in that tournament. You can’t manipulate or manoeuvre, you’ve got to face the best.
BN: What’s the one question you hate getting asked in interviews?
There’s a few that are similar. “Are you ready?” for when you’ve got a fight coming up. “How are you feeling?” “Is this your best camp?” (Laughs).
BN: How would you sum up your performances in your first five fights so far?
I’ve not performed too bad. I’ve not performed at my best. You need someone in there to push you and get the best out of you. You need that fear factor going into a fight to get the proper best out of you. You’ve seen glimpses of what I’m capable of doing but there’s not been one night, from start to finish, when you’ve seen the overall package of what I can do. I suppose that’ll come in time. I’m looking at some people and they’ve got these titles… if I’m honest I think the titles are a load of shite. The only ones that are important to me are the world titles. But maybe I need something like that whether it’s the EBU or the WBC Silver or any other international title or whatever they’re fucking called these days (laughs). I maybe need something like that to get better fights. It’s got to a point now I don’t honestly know what I need to do or say to get in a good fight – apart from keep fighting and when the time’s right it’ll just happen.
BN: Would you describe yourself as a perfectionist?
I think so. I sparred recently and everyone was saying I’m sparring well but because I’m not doing everything to perfection, as if I’m fighting this week, I get a bit rattled with myself because I want everything to be spot on. Even things like timing and all that jazz. But I know all that will fall into place come closer to the fight. I can be very hard on myself.
BN: Does that stem from your time in boxing so far or when you were in the Army or before that?
I think it’s just everything. When I do something, I want it done properly. If I’m doing something and all eyes are on me, I want to be the best at doing it. I think that’s just the way I am really.
BN: When I’ve interviewed other fighters who describe themselves as perfectionists once they win a world title, they’re still not happy. Maybe you’re trying to achieve something that may never happen.
You’re saying I couldn’t win a world title.
BN: No, no. Not that you couldn’t be a world champion…
I was about to lose my shit there (laughs).
BN: What I meant is it’s very hard to strive for perfection.
I see what you mean. With me if I achieve the best that boxing can offer, I’ll be happy but if I only achieve half of what boxing can offer then I’m not going to be happy. You can be unified, undisputed [but] if I just become a world champion I won’t be satisfied. If you look back at the Olympics, I don’t really like talking about it, [I won] a bronze medal. Everyone’s saying, “Well done”, “That’s incredible”. When I think back to it now yeah not everyone medals so it’s something to be happy about, but it grinds my gears. It really annoys me the fact that I didn’t get the gold because that’s the best that amateur boxing could’ve offered me, and I didn’t get that before turning pro.
BN: I’ve seen a photo of you standing on the podium with your medal and you look happy…
On the podium I was reminded to smile. If you look in the [Team GB] gym all the pictures up on the wall are of people smiling with their medal on the podium. Whereas Ben Whittaker, because he took his medal off and was upset his picture stands out to everyone else’s because he wasn’t on the podium. His is just of him in an ordinary ring in his boxing kit. So, the staff were saying, “Make sure you smile because the picture’s going to be going up on the wall,” so I think that’s why. I was a bit cut up after the Olympics for quite a while.
BN: One word I’ve seen used to describe you is “vicious”. Is that accurate?
I suppose you could say that but it’s controlled viciousness. I’m not just gonna swing every punch in the book and swing from all different angles. I think it’s very controlled what I do. I try and hurt my opponents, obviously. I try and put a dent in them, but I do it in a controlled manner. Even in my last fight I hurt my opponent, but I knew in my head I’ve got eight rounds of this, so I don’t want to just let loose on her, and she goes into a cocoon, and nothing happens. I thought I’ll have another one or two rounds of doing this and I’ll open up more and obviously she retired.
BN: When you were a member of the Royal Horse Artillery your job title was Gunner. What did that entail?
You’re a Private when you join, and you go through your training. You do your first lot of training which is 14 weeks and then you go into phase two with whichever cap badge you choose. I chose Royal Artillery. That was another 16 weeks of training. As soon as you pass out from all your training you become a Gunner, or you stay a Private if you go to a different cap badge. And then when they promote, you’re a Bombardier or a Lance Bombardier. With me I was in the regiment for about three years. I got straight back into boxing. I wasn’t really in green kit that much if I’m honest. I was always in sports stuff. They was getting a bit annoyed I hadn’t promoted because I was always the face of sport for the Army. It looks a bit shit that I’m a Gunner and not a Lance Bombardier or Bombardier so they was like, “You really need to promote” but for you to promote you need to attend a course. Fuck that (laughs). I just couldn’t bring myself back to sleeping outside and doing all that stuff. I was so used to being out of the Army, I suppose. I couldn’t bring myself back to doing it. And because I had the Olympics coming up, I couldn’t get my head round doing it.
BN: Is it a part of your life you miss?
Yeah, I do in a way. I went down the other day and we did some filming for Sky. I don’t know what it is I miss about it exactly. I don’t know if it’s the structure or because you’re a soldier in the British Army which I was proud to be known as. I don’t know if it’s that side I miss. Boxing’s like a family and that was like a family to me. There’s little things I miss about it.
BN: I stumbled across Martin Stark on Instagram who is the Founder and CEO of the World Gay Boxing Championships which were held in Australia recently. Its aim is to promote boxing amongst the LGBTQIA+ community and for people to compete. Do you think the sport is doing enough for the community in general?
This is a tricky topic of conversation for me. Do I agree with the fact that there needs to be a Gay Boxing Championships to separate yourself… I don’t think that’s necessary in my opinion. There’s things that can be done to comfort and support people in the sense of, if you want to be gay in the sport, but I think some things go a bit over the top and [are a] bit unnecessary. I don’t believe there needs to be a Gay Boxing Championships. What are you really getting out of that? Why not let all the athletes participate in the championships that matter and progress your career where you can compete against the best people in the world instead of doing a separate championship. What are you getting out of it apart from calling yourself the champion of the Gay Boxing Championships. I don’t get it.
BN: In 2021 you spoke about the Olympics and you said, “I want to get myself on that podium. I want my face cemented on that wall in Sheffield at boxing HQ so they can look at me for the rest of their lives.” Does legacy matter to you?
Yes and no. I do it to make my mum proud and I do it for myself. Like I said, no matter what I do and what I put my time into I always want to be the best. But I would also like people to look at me and think she is the best in that weight category. More so, I want the younger generation that come from difficult backgrounds or tough situations or, like me, where they couldn’t get through school and thought they had no hope of getting a job, to look at me and see where I’ve come from. I was shit at education, I didn’t have a job but when you do put your mind, time, and effort into something you can achieve anything you want to. Achieve the unachievable when people thought you couldn’t. I think that’s what’s important for me coming from where I’ve come from. I was terrible in school, couldn’t get a job and then I turned to the Army, picked my boxing back up and I’m here now. When I was younger my brothers absolutely terrorised me. They’d be like, “You’re gonna be nothing. No car. No nothing.” They thought they was gonna be driving around in a Bentley because one of them got a law degree. And they’d be like, “You’ll be lucky to drive a three-wheeler.” When I look back, I laugh because it’s mental to think where everyone thought I was gonna be, the path I was going down, to where I am now.
BN: What do your brothers think now about what they said?
It’s hilarious because the one that’s got a law degree, he does nothing with it. So, he’s working in a call centre, and I don’t even think he’s got a car (laughs). It’s turned out completely different to what they expected.
