Interview: Declan Warrington
BN: With the perspective that comes with retirement, how do you reflect on Eddieโs progress?
BH: Youโve got a slightly vested interest, havenโt you? Heโs my son โ any parent is always proud of their children. If youโre trying to distance it and take me out of the equation as his dad, Iโll score him like any employee โ based on his ability and what heโs achieved โ and the scores read high. I value my roots and my work ethic โ I set a very high standard thatโs derived from my past, and when I look at Eddie three things go through my mind. One, Iโm not frightened to die, โcause I think this boy is a reincarnation of me, to an extent. When he was growing up he led a different life to me โ it was public school; nice holidays; money. That can soften people, and there was a stage in his late teens when I thought he might be softening. But the ultimate compliment I can give him is he works harder than I did, and I thought my work ethic was unbeatable.
[Two,] he has adjusted so much better to the new world of media than his contemporaries. The worldโs a different place, but Eddieโs led a resurgence of boxing,ย which obviously would be impossible without the right talent; the AJs of this world; the Carl Froch days. From day one heโs embraced the digital world and social media scene, and built not only an empire, but made himself into a world-renowned figure. Most people in boxing live in a goldfish bowl. Thereโs a huge amount of opportunity [beyond boxing]. So in terms of media awareness and media manipulation, heโs a 10 out of 10. No one has a personal following like him; no one gets mobbed in the street like him. Youโve got to adjust, and itโs very stressful, but [three,] what heโs turned out to be is exactly what I wanted him to be. Heโs a good man; heโs honest; he has integrity; he works his socks off, and he doesnโt like to lose.
Numbers-wise, heโs taken my company to another level. I donโt think I would have seen that level. Eddieโs always taken the piss out of me โ โNo โย we donโt do it like thatโ โย and itโs quite fun being told off by a youngster youโve brought up, especially when you know theyโre right. Work ethic โ unparalleled. Understanding of social media โ in the half-dozen people in the world. The ability to cope with the stresses and strains is the one that nearly always gets you in the long run. Heโs 44; I said to him the other day, โI think youโve got six years in you โ this business burns you out; it burned me out a few times; in those days boxing wasnโt worth the price you was payingโ. Heโs thrown that goldfish bowl in the ocean, and heโs grown with it.
BN: Is he better than you?
BH: In todayโs market, without a doubt. I doubted he could last as long โ heโs been in the firing line for 10, 15 years โ but he has. Heโs had a mantel on his shoulders, which I always laugh about; I call him โSilver-spoon kidโ. Thatโs now turned around. I walked into The O2 and heard someone shout, โLook, itโs Eddie Hearnโs dadโ. In some things, without a doubt, heโs far better than me. Thereโs still a little bit โ because of my background, Iโve got the edge on him on numerical understandings of the progress of business, but that isnโt the biggest part of business. The biggest part today is do you have the face? Do you have the talent? He has both.
BN: How are your book sales comparing?
BH: Heโs killing me. Donโt even discuss it. My book is much better than his book, but he slaughters me. Why? โCause heโs got 3,000,000 followers on Instagram.
BN: What are your thoughts on what could be described as โthe cult of Eddie Hearnโ โ the social media parodies; the merchandise; the fight-day runs, and more?
BH: I find it [No Context Hearn] hilarious. โHow does this happen? This is ridiculous.โ Everywhere I went, all I could see was this. All of the mugs in my kitchen have got quotes on them. Itโs part of the new world of promotion. When you promote an event youโre promoting yourself as well as the event.
[The runs are] clever. Itโs out and out clever. Iโd have never thought of something like that. And it has become a cult โย itโs become things people look forward to; things people train for. Itโs part of his image. Whatโs it done to him? Itโs changed his body shape; itโs reeducated him. Thereโs always benefits to things that have longevity. What you donโt want to do is one-offs. If youโre creating a brand โย heโs effectively created his own brand โ all these other ideas are servicing and expanding that brand.
BN: He jokes that heโs having a midlife crisisโฆ
BH: We all have little crises, donโt we? Weโre all human. Iโm 76 in June, but when I was his age I was doing the same thing. Midlife crisis โ yeah. Inevitably, as youโre younger, and you drink too much, you eat too much and you party too much and you stay up too late, you perhaps neglect yourself, and heโs done something about it. I applaud him for it. How heโs fitting it in โ the time โ I donโt know, but he has.
BN: What do you make of the nickname โFast Carโ?
BH: I absolutely love it. It sums him up completely. One of the assets in life is to be able to take the mick out of yourself, and itโs quite funny, because it sort of sums up the way his careerโs moved. Heโs moved very quickly, and he likes the good things in life โ he has his Rolls Royce โ and at the same time heโs a fast operator in business. It sums up both sides of him.
BN: Whatโs his weakness?
BH: That coincides with your previous question. To be a great promoter, you also need to have a big ego.ย If he has a weakness itโs probably his ego, because he wants to be the best, and he wants to be perceived as the best and respected as the best. An ego can be an asset and a disadvantage. But youโve got to have that self-promotion approach to sell. Weโre all some type of travelling salesman. Eddie projects his social image as well as Iโve seen anybody, but at the same time itโs a business asset. It can be a weakness if you make a decision based on ego. Thereโs always that potential when youโre so driven in your fast car to be the best. He has to be careful of that, because sometimes the more youโre ego-driven, the less youโre business-driven. Something inside everyone wants that pat on the back โ itโs human nature to have an ego. [But] itโs more of a potential weakness than a weakness.
BN: How concerned are you about the risk of burn out?
BH: I think heโs now travelling more than I ever did. It depends on the individual. [Burn out] will slow down if youโre fit of the mind and body, and motivated and happy in your life. Itโll be his call [when to slow down], not mine. At the moment heโs really happy doing what heโs doing, and Iโll encourage him to do whatever he wants to do.
BN: Does being more famous than many of the fighters he promotes make him a good or bad boxing promoter?
BH: If I was a fighter โ without taking the bloodline into account โ is there anybody youโd seriously rather be with, looking after your career? Donโt be mad. Donโt even think about it. They donโt exist โ anywhere in the world. I know how much he cares about his fighters. He lives it. Heโd take a bullet for his fighters. But that doesnโt matter โ heโs also bloody good, and when heโs doing a great job for himselfโฆ Itโs a bit like saying, โWas Tiger Woods good for golf?โ. Tiger Woods was very good for Tiger Woods, but he was also brilliant for golf, โcause what he did elevated it, and what Eddieโs done is elevated boxing โ alongside people like AJ, and other fighters whoโve obviously been a part of that elevation. But from a management perspective, who could possibly give an all-round better service? There isnโt anyone who can even start to tie his laces.
BN: How do you reflect on him banning you from boxing meetings?
BH: Great move. Great move. Iโm yesterdayโs story, and yesterdayโs technique. No oneโs ever going to stop me having opinions, but in a business-sense, Iโd bow to his judgement 24 hours a day. The society that we live in now โ the old-school people talk our minds a bit too much at times. Heโs dead right. Apart from that, everyone has their sell-by date, and youโve got to be a big enough person to realise when your sell-by date is. Mine was probably six years ago. I can still have my nose in things and ask questions, but Iโm enjoying other people do the work, frankly. Heโs entitled to be in total control. You donโt appoint management and then manage yourself. The idea of appointing top management is to let them do what theyโre good at, which is to manage at the top level. โYour days of press conferences are gone.โ โFair enough โ Iโve got plenty of other things to do.โ
BN: What about the move from Sky Sports to DAZN?
BH: The world changes, and people have got to be prepared to change. The worst thing that can ever happen to you is to get complacent, and Sky got complacent. They didnโt think weโd leave. They thought they could get us on the cheap. They didnโt read the market properly; they gambled, and they got it wrong, and we made exactly the right decision and I think itโs one Sky regret deeply. They will never say that. And who knows, by the way, what the future holds? You never know. Itโs an ongoing story. Business is business. I always remember [Bob] Arum saying of [Don] King, โWe donโt have to like each other to work togetherโ.
Itโs a shame โย 30 years with [Sky]. We as a company โ without Sky we wouldnโt be where we are. But theyโve still got to treat you with respect. A new player came in that was prepared to pay significantly more money, and they werenโt. We would have rather stayed with Sky initially, but they had to adjust to the new world we live in, and they didnโt. Thatโs okay. Weโve still got the darts, and other bits and pieces with Sky, and thatโs humongous business for us. Far bigger than boxing. That contractโs up in a yearโs time and I very much hope Sky move with the times and we do a deal weโre both happy with.
Financially, without question [itโs proving the right move]. Forget the goldfish bowl; look at the ocean. For all of the money, whatโs it given us? Contracts in America; Japan; Mexico. Weโre a global company; boxing is a global sport. Is the DAZN relationship perfect? No. Why? Because itโs still requiring investment to make it the force it can be. But the future of consumers across all sport, not just boxing, is digital, and people like Sky and ITV are realising that as well. Weโre very happy with where we are and we believe in the future of where we are.
BN: โฆand his handling of the Conor Benn affair?
BH: My nature is to believe people, and I believe Conor Benn. I might be right; I might be wrong. I may never know. Heโs boxed a couple of times in America, and we have contracts all over the world. We will always stay loyal, where we can. Unless itโs something horrendous, weโll always give the benefit of the doubt, and stay loyal, to our fighter. There are limits to that, but in Conor Bennโs case; with the relationship with him and his father [Nigel], we go back a long way. Goldfish bowl. Whereโs Dillian Whyte registered at the moment? Over in Ireland. Whereโs Tyson Fury registered? [Bennโs] got to earn a living. If heโs banned worldwide, heโs banned worldwide โ we canโt do nothing about it. [But] itโs a little dispute thatโs been blown out of proportion. Letโs see how the appeal goes.
[The abandoned attempt to proceed with the fight] was a decision the promoters [Wasserman co-promoted Benn-Chris Eubank Jnr] made, and in hindsight they may have made a different decision. Iโve never really looked back with regret, โcause you canโt change anything. โThat was a call I made. Did I get it right or wrong? I donโt know.โ
BN: How do you feel about Matchroomโs growing relationship with the powerbrokers of Saudi Arabia?
BH: Our government trades with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia trade with us. Other sports have been there. Iโm not going to mix up politics and sport. My client wants to maximise his earnings, and like a lot of other sports we enjoy going and changing the sporting landscape, along with our friends in Saudi.
I went there four years ago to talk about a snooker contract, and it took four years to sign. I said to the minister for sport there, โI only have one condition โ we use women refereesโ. At the time, women werenโt even allowed to drive. โThatโs the deal breaker our side.โ And to his credit he looked at me and said, โGood โ weโll go along with you on thatโ. Small steps make giant leaps over a period of time. The world doesnโt change overnight, but there are movements there โย itโs compelling to think that sport can be used in lots of different ways. Iโm pleased weโre dealing with the Saudis; Iโm pleased weโre dealing with the Qataris; the Abu Dhabians; the Bahranians, and also every other country in the world, because we donโt live in a goldfish bowl. Can you imagine me saying to Anthony Joshua, โI donโt think we should go to Saudi and earn X; we should go to York Hall and earn Yโ?
BN: Given theirs and your history, what do you make of Eddieโs relationship today with Frank Warren?
BH: Itโs good. I never understand this about โhistoryโ. Frank and I have been competitors for a long time, but Iโve always said to Eddie, โYouโll enjoy his companyโ. Up to a few months ago Eddie had never met him. โWe donโt see eye to eye on business; different strategies make different people. But heโs passionate about his boxing, and heโs a good boxing promoter. I wouldnโt do business with Frank, but I enjoy his company.โ Now weโre doing business with him, and thatโs the right way to do, because itโs good for both of us. Don King and Bob Arum hated each other. I donโt hate Frank Warren; I wish him and his family the very best. Weโre just different animals.
I actually met [Frank Warren] the other day, and Eddie said afterwards Eddie and George [Warren, Frankโs son] were laughing. โYou were like two old farts talking about fights that took place 30 years ago.โ Heโs absolutely right. Donโt mistake competitiveness for personal feelings. Of course I wanted to win; of course there were fighters of his I wanted to nick; of course I had fighters that he wanted. That was the business then. Slightly changed business now. Eddieโs getting on well with George and he gets on well with Frank, and itโs good business. What did Micky Duff say to Lloyd Honeyghan? โI donโt need to like you to manage you.โ But theyโre getting on well, and thatโs lovely. The worldโs a better place.