BN: After successive defeats, how do you reflect on your victory last month, against Isaac Munoz Gutierrez?ย
I had a good fight. A good performance. I couldโve did a little more. But I did what I could in the time I had to get ready and prepare for the fight, so, overall, I had a good performance. But, you know, Iโm just a huge critic of myself so I feel like I couldโve did a little better, but I was trying a new style โ trying some new things โย and, you know, just back to the drawing board.
[My new style involved] just trying to be more aggressive โ come forward more. I fight better off the back leg, so my coach has been wanting me to come forward instead of moving back so much. So just trying to be the aggressor more.
In a sense [thatโs a response to my defeats], because I feel like I could have been more aggressive in those fights. So, yeah, thatโs a part of it.
Itโs always a huge relief to win, but you canโt beat yourself up too much, you know? Boxing is a very hard sport; we put our lives on the line; we train very hard, so a loss can be very depressing for people. But I go back to the gym; we watch film; I see what mistakes I made; what I could have perfected or what I could have did better. So I never really look at it as a disappointing thing โ itโs more of a lesson. [Losing] didnโt affect my confidence.
BN: Despite not being a Matchroom fighter, you were prominent on a Matchroom bill for the third fight in succession. Had you been promised other opportunities in the event of victory?
No, I havenโt been promised any more opportunities. I havenโt heard anything but I wanna rematch both of them [Dillian Whyte and Anthony Joshua]. I wanna avenge both of my losses.
BN: Then, whatโs next?
Hopefully we stay at the top. Hopefully I can be back in the ring, by November, December. Iโm back in the gym, just training real hard and keep perfecting my craft. Working on all my new style weโve been trying to bring forward, and hopefully we can get something โ we can get a call.
BN: How good is Dillian Whyte?
Heโs a good fighter. Heโs hard bodied; heโs not soft; heโs got a hard will and he comes to fight; heโs got some grit in him and he comes to fight. I think a lot of people donโt respect him but I tell a lot of people he took a lot of hard fights. He took a lot of fights that guys wouldnโt take, so, I give him his respect where itโs due. Arguably [heโs still one of the worldโs best heavyweights], but you know, that list changes all the time.
BN: How good is Anthony Joshua?
Joshua is good; he got nice power; he just lacks confidence to me. He just lacks confidence to me but heโs good; heโs got a nice jab; heโs got a nice right-hand counter.
BN: So Joshua is better than Whyte?
Skills-wise, yes. But Whyte got โย itโs kinda hard to accumulate talent when you do with certain fighters. โCause Iโm pretty sure thereโs a lot of fighters than have more skills than me, but thereโs not a lot of fighters that have more heart than me. Thereโs not a lot of fighters that are going to push it to the limit like I would say that I would, but skills-wise, yeah, Joshua is the better fighter skills-wise. But Dillian can pour that grit and that heart out.
Whyte was more confident when we fought. He had more faith in his abilities. Joshua was stronger; Joshua was stronger. I can take both though โย I got a chance. I donโt really get hurt, but Joshua is stronger. Heโs a stronger puncher.
BN: Whatโs your take on Joshua squaring up to you after the final bell of your fight?
Honestly, I donโt know. It was crazy confusing. So, like, me and him were talking trash to each other, back and forth during the fight; beginning of the fight. So at the end of the fight, Iโm trying to go congratulate his people, but he put his head on me โ heโs talking but I canโt really understand what heโs saying. So itโs like heโs kinda pushing me back and Iโm like, โGet off meโ. I push him off me and then he just gets to talking a whole bunch of nonsense. He apologised to say that it was the heat-of-the-passion-type thing, but you know, itโs just sports. He apologised in the ring.
I mean, you know, we come from different demographics, so like Iโm from a place where if somebody is doing something like that, and they want problems, then weโre not shying away from it. Iโll just say that. Itโs not like weโre trying to start nothing, but Iโm from a place where weโre not backing out. Weโre not shy from nothing. In my head, I didnโt want a problem, but if he was going to make it a problem, I was all for it.
The โAJโ fight affected my attitude a bit. Iโm usually a calm person but I was kind of riled up. I couldnโt concentrate; I couldnโt focus so it was kind of letting my anger get the best of me. I donโt wanna say I wasnโt focused but thatโs a part of it, โcause if I let my anger get me out of my game plan thatโs still considered me losing focus. So weโve been practicing standing aggressive; working on my anger stance and keeping myself under control.
[I was] arguing with the ref [Marcus McDonnell]. AJ started collar tying; started stiff-arming and pushing down on the head when I was trying to come in. And he just started collar tying and pulling me in close. There was one time he was collar tying and Iโm telling the ref. Iโm looking at the ref like, โHeโs doing it right nowโ, and the ref said he doesnโt see anything, and me and the ref were arguing there for that moment. If you go back and watch the fight AJ did it a lot of times โ when he threw uppercuts. He would grab the back of my neck and throw an uppercut. Thatโs an illegal punch, but you know, it is what it is.
I had the perfect game plan. He canโt match my speed. Heโs strong, but the power wasnโt fazing me. He canโt match my speed โ my punch output is higher than his so, honestly, if I didnโt get mad at the ref or my focus got turned to the ref, I honestly think I couldโve won that fight. I couldโve pulled it off. I mean, they wonโt admit it; the fans wouldnโt admit it; even the way they showed it on TV. But, you know, the first four rounds I was doing my job.
[The plan was] to counter him, because heโs slower than me, and I thought that Derrick James was gonna have him more aggressive than what he actually was. So my plan was to kind of be aggressive but to get him to come forward so I can counter off the back-foot. Once I got out of my game plan it was kind of like an out-of-body experience โ you ever had a situation where youโre there physically but youโre not there mentally? It was kinda that situation.
BN: You fought him in his first fight under Derrick James. Should much more be expected of him this weekend?
Thatโs the thing โ heโs not young. Heโs kinda seasoned already, so it comes to a point to how much can the new coach actually teach you? Or how much can he show you? So, really, itโs like youโre trying to learn something new when you have old habits in your new style, so now youโve gotta try to erase the old habits and try to incorporate the new thing in. Not saying that it canโt happen โ it just takes time. I donโt know if heโs been with [James] enough time to be able to make the full adjustments like they want, โcause itโs still short notice. Theyโre still learning each other.
It really depends on the student. You gotta think of the coach as like a teacher. Depending on how good the student is, that depends on how fast the student will learn and be able to use what he learned. I still feel like itโs kinda still early. You might see some glimpses of [improvements], but I donโt think youโre gonna see the whole thing by now.
BN: As his most recent opponent, how did you feel about news of Whyte failing a drugs test?
Like he probably used them when we fought. I heard this ainโt the first time, so Iโm figuring he was probably doing it when we fought too. I didnโt feel anything that didnโt feel right [when we fought, last November].
It pisses me off [when fighters cheat]. I get enraged. We train our whole lives โย we train hard โ we give it our all and then people just come in and take advantage and cheat. Itโs not fair to the ones that live the sport โย the ones that really love and care about the sport. Itโs not fair to us. People die from doing this sport. People get life-changing experiences. People like that are probably the people that are damaging other people. Itโs fucked up.
It should not be allowed โ people should get [permanently] banned from the sport. I understand if youโve taken a drug thatโs on the banned substance list then you can get a suspension, but if youโre taking PEDs [performance-enhancing drugs] and you get caught taking them more than one time your ass should be banned from boxing. Youโre a hazard to peopleโs health. Promoters need to think about that too. If youโve got a guy whoโs caught taking PEDs, wouldnโt he be hurtful to your business โ to you making money as a promoter? People gotta think about this shit full circle. These guys taking PEDs can potentially alter somebodyโs life, and then promoters, you got a fighter you wasted so much fucking money on you canโt even get a fight for them. Nobody wants to fight them โcause they take steroids.
I feel sorry for [Joshua] on the aspect of we train so hard we be ready to fight โย thereโs a lot of built-up aggression at the end of those camps. We ready to let go, and now you canโt. Sometimes it can make you frustrated or a little snappy at times. I just hope heโs okay, โcause boxing sometimes can be a real frustrating sport.
I would still want to fight [in Joshuaโs position]. I didnโt just work my ass off in training for nothing. The replacement fighter hasnโt been getting ready for him either. He might have been in the gym but that doesnโt mean heโs been practising for your type of fight.
BN: How big a problem do you consider PEDs in boxing?
Itโs a huge problem. I think PEDS are widely used. Not just in boxing but a lot of sportsย โย theyโre widely used. Iโve been hearing people have ways to mask it, so you can pass tests. If thatโs the case PEDs are massively used and we just donโt know whoโs using them.
Iโve heard athletes โย you do have people giving you supplements โย where some donโt even know theyโre taking steroids. They think theyโre taking pills or supplements. I hope boxing can make it clean for the athletes that really care about the sport.
BN: As a rival heavyweight, how do you feel about Francis Ngannou getting the lucrative opportunity he is against Tyson Fury?
Itโs frustrating for us, as boxers, because weโre in this sport doing it day-in, day-out. But, you know, itโs no disrespect โ heโs a fighter too, even though he comes from a different fighting background. I guess itโs something the fans want to see, but yeah, itโs a little frustrating. Guys like us โ any boxer โ honestly, we wait, we wait, we wait and we wait for these opportunities and then guys just come and get โem, and weโve been boxing for four or five years trying to get an opportunity that a guy come get in a couple months with no boxing experience.
From what Iโve seen in MMA he can hit, but like I tell a lot of people itโs not MMA. The gloves are different; you only can use your hands if you get tired; you canโt slam or kick nobody, so you know itโs a whole different ball game. I like MMA. Iโm a huge combat sports guy.
BN: Is Fury the best heavyweight in the world?
I think Iโm the best heavyweight in the world โ I ainโt gonna lie to you about that. But I like Tyson Fury. I like his skills; heโs got good skills to be a big man; heโs not super fast but his timing is great. His timing is great, and he can land punches that you donโt think heโd throw. So, you know, heโs a big guy who knows how to use the ring; he got a good left and heโs got great timing.
BN: How confident are you that heโll eventually fight Oleksandr Usyk?
Hopefully it happens. I was so disappointed when they did that last shit about the contract, and no rematch clause and all that. I donโt understand it โ I donโt see how you think a world champion is gonna fight you without a rematch clause in his contract. Hopefully it do happen โ thatโs something I do wanna see. Iโm a fan of the sport too so thatโs something I do wanna see. I was all glued to the TV watching for [Terence] Crawford and [Errol] Spence.
I told people Crawford was gonna win. Iโm not hating on Spence โย heโs a hell of a fighter. But itโs just the style; how they fight. Errol fits into TCโs style โcause TC is like an in-the-pocket fighter but he moves and heโs great at counterpunching. So I think Errolโs aggressiveness kind of fits into how Crawford fight.
Iโm 50-50 at that [Fury-Usyk]. I know a lot of people are saying Tyson but a lot of people are sleeping on Usykโs skills. Tyson got the best jab, though, so I think Tyson probably can win it with the jab but Usykโs got way more skills than people think, so Iโm kind of 50-50 with that fight. I think Usyk is a really slept-on guy. I know he came up from cruiserweight, but heโs not trying to kill anybodyย [with knockout power] โย heโs just out there, boxing.