ON A dreary Wednesday afternoon, James DeGale and George Groves sit a couple of feet away from each other in the otherwise empty upstairs function room of a west London pub.
They are about to conduct a joint interview for the first time in almost a decade and the production team are putting the finishing touches to the set while the pair shoot the breeze.
There was a time when a meeting between these two would certainly involve a number of people from the two respective teams; family, security, trainers and everyone else in between. It would almost certainly be underpinned by tension and the very real threat of physical violence, and not just between the fighters.
“The rivalry was serious and fierce because it wasn’t just me and him,” DeGale explains. “It ended up being his team against my team, too. It cuts deep.”
But all these years on, two of British boxing’s greatest ever super-middleweights do not look too dissimilar to the punters who might frequent the downstairs bar in the same establishment. “How’s the family?” They ask. “Still training a bit then, yeah?” For a moment it is hard to believe that they shared the fiercest rivalry in the country since Benn and Eubank.
Incidentally, Chris Eubank Jr was the man in the opposite corner the last time either DeGale or Groves boxed professionally, when the ghost of Chunky dropped a unanimous decision at the O2 Arena in February 2019. He announced his retirement shortly afterwards, following the path Groves had taken exactly one month earlier. Groves was just 30 at the time, DeGale 33.
Since early 2019, however, the pair have led very different lives. Groves has made a clear move into punditry and broadcasting with regular TV spots and his own podcast while DeGale has barely been seen at all. The man who never really liked interviews at the best of times was adamant he would go missing as soon as his career was over – and he did.
But in June, social media was sent into a spin when Groves uploaded a picture of the pair together, claiming they had bumped into each other randomly on the King’s Road. Groves admitted: “I did write that but actually I had shot James a message. I had a feeling our paths were going to cross soon, maybe in a work situation, so I thought let’s just see what he’s up to, let’s see what he’s thinking, see if we can break the ice a little bit. He asked me what I was thinking and I told him I just wanted to have a coffee.”
DeGale interjects. “I was thinking this guy wanted to have a fight but I thought let me just go and meet him and see what he’s saying. I met him and George was actually alright.”
So, what of the meeting, their first of any kind in many years. “It was okay,” Groves says. “I’ve already had a cooling off period on a rivalry with Carl Froch so I’ve got a bit more experience of it. Whereas he might be thinking ‘don’t put your hands in your pockets because we might have a little roll around’.”
“It was a little bit frosty at first,” DeGale nods. “But once we got talking… George is alright.
“Back then I would just have to look at George and he would annoy me. I couldn’t even tell you how he would infuriate me, this guy. But I’m a lot more mature. You grow older, wiser and things don’t annoy you as much. I look at him now and think he’s alright.”
The rivalry started more than two decades ago when the pair both boxed for Dale Youth ABC. At first age and weight had kept them apart but both knew it would not be long before they had to prove who was the best middleweight at the club.
“George was 13 and had a tattoo,” DeGale remembers. “He was 14 and had a big hairy chest. He was like a man by the age of 15 so I had to deal with him like a man.”
Groves laughs. “He was Chunky, a little fat kid in the back of the van. Mischievous but didn’t take his boxing seriously.
“Then one year he dropped down from light-heavyweight to middleweight, and I moved up to middleweight. I was two years younger but I remember thinking one day I’m going to have to bash him up. At the time, he was still picking me up in his car and dropping me off at Crystal Palace and I just thought it was great to be sparring the ABA champion. But I knew it would get awkward soon.”
It got really awkward in 2006 when the pair met in the North West Divs of the ABAs in bout 14 of the night at Brent Town Hall in front of a few hundred people. Groves won via majority decision, much to the disdain of DeGale.
“Oh, I won,” DeGale says. “It was clear. It’s on Youtube now, go and watch it. It’s clear.” Groves, smiling again, adds: “No, I put it on him.”
“I was very disappointed,” DeGale continues. “I was thinking it would affect my chances of qualifying for the Olympics in 2008. I was thinking ‘is he going to go?’ I was in trouble.”
In the end, despite the defeat, it was DeGale who got the nod for Great Britain at middleweight, and he vindicated the decision by claiming an unlikely gold in Beijing.
“I didn’t watch any of the Olympics,” Groves says. “When he qualified, I thought, ‘Good, he’s going to get beat’. Then when he won the gold, I sat down and realised I had to process it.
“I didn’t think that because I had beaten him, I would have won gold, but I did think – this fucker is going to have it off now. People said it would be great for me because I’m his rival and if he blows up I will blow up with him. But I wasn’t happy.”
DeGale turned over amid much fanfare while Groves’ early professional career was far more lowkey. Even so, those inside boxing were linking them from the off.
“The rivalry runs the whole way through,” Groves explains. “We box, we turn pro at the same time, we are on similar journeys. One minute I feel like I’m ahead, then I know I’m not ahead. I just thought: ‘I’ve got to get him’.”
Groves did get him again in May 2011 when the Board ordered the pair to meet for the British super-middleweight title. DeGale was 10-0 at the time, while Groves was 12-0. Just like at Brent Town Hall, it was nip and tuck throughout and, just like Brent Town Hall, Groves got the decision. Despite boxing for another eight years, they never secured the professional rematch. “Feels like unfinished business to be honest,” DeGale says.
It means the man from Hammersmith, two years his rival’s junior, is 2-0 up. DeGale, an Olympic gold medallist, world champion and MBE, argues he had the better career overall. He was the first Brit to win an Olympic gold medal and a world title, was never knocked out and points out that he won his world title at the first time of asking, with a memorable victory over Andre Dirrell in Boston. Groves, however, famously needed four attempts to win it.
“But that’s my final point,” Groves says. “Would you trade all that in for a win against me?”
“No way,” DeGale replies. By now, the heat has turned up a notch or two since their initial meeting earlier in the day. DeGale says: “George, leave it, I’m the man, I’m the champ, I had the better career.” He then suggests a potential third fight and tells Groves he can have a statue of him on the mantelpiece if he makes it 3-0. Groves, glint in his eye, suggests the lean DeGale is ‘too skinny for me now’.
Once their interview, for Groves’ new YouTube channel, is wrapped, the pair pose for photos. “There’s probably a bit of needle still,” Groves says. “But James will probably agree with me that we will probably forgive each other long before our teams will forgive each other.
“There will be people who watch this and think, ‘How could they?’ Because they are probably not quite ready to let that hatred go.”
Before DeGale leaves, the pair embrace. Chunky does not waste the opportunity to test his strength against his rival by lifting him up. “What you weighing now?” He asks.
Unfinished business? It certainly feels that way.
