BN: Youโd been driving back and forth between Liverpool and Manchester, from where youโd been preparing Callum Smith and Dillian Whyte for big fightsโฆ
I mean, it wasnโt bad. It worked out good because it just gave me something good to do throughout the day, โcause Dillian doesnโt train until late at night, and Callum trains earlier in the morning. So it kept me busy during the day. I love what I do, so it really wasnโt a big problem.
I was staying [like Whyte, in a hotel in] Manchester, because Dillian trains at night โ sometimes we get [to the gym] at like nine, ten oโclock. It wouldnโt make sense for me to travel back to Liverpool at that time of night.
We [me and Smith are] still working, because theyโre trying to get Callum something, and weโre just working, man. Weโll see what happens. I just hope they can get Callum a fight, you know? A tune-up or something to keep him busy.
BN: What was your reaction when you learned of the cancellation of Joshua-Whyte II?
I was in my hotel room. I received a phone call from a reporter. I was like, โI donโt got time for no games, man โย I donโt know what the hell you talking aboutโ. [My immediate reaction was,] โI donโt believe itโ. I still donโt believe [heโs cheated]. From being around him, and watching him work โ for this fight, his determination was through the roof. Youโre looking good; trainingโs going well. Youโve had all the best sparring. Why fuck it up?
Itโs frustrating, because itโs the week of. When we trained Friday, I said to myself, โThis is it, baby โย we winning this fightโ. Then you get a call the next day. โGod damn.โ
I had one fight โย we was at the weigh-in and they called off the whole damn card. But fights of this magnitude โย these were two fights, you figure Callumโs becoming champ again, and Dillianโs going to upset [Joshua]. I always tell people, โI believe the fight is happening when the bell rings โย I donโt even believe it when weโre walking to the ring โcause anything could fucking happenโ. When the bell rings, and they take three steps inโฆ โOkay, weโre here.โ Other than that, I donโt believe shit until then.
Iโm totally against [the use of PEDs]. I support Dill โย I just canโt see him doing it. From being around him, watching him, I just canโt see it.
[The negative influence of PEDs] makes me hope and pray for changes. But I wouldnโt let nothing like that allow me to walk away from the sport.
BN: How widely do you think theyโre used?
That I really, really donโt know, because I never really get into that. I know that theyโre strict on it. I know that thereโs heavy fines to be paid, from what Iโm hearing. I donโt know exactly what. Do I know? No. Why? Because I never experienced it. I really donโt know, because when I was fighting there was no such thing โย they didnโt have all that shit when I was fighting. They would piss test you for drugs, but, shit, they would do that after the fight โย they wouldnโt even do that like they do it now. Iโm at a loss for words right now.
BN: What has Whyte told you?
I called him to see how he was doing. He was upset. He said heโs going to clear his name, and I said, โLook, take a few days to clear your head, and when youโre ready to talk, call meโ. He said, โI willโ. I kept it simple. I told him I support him โย I got his back โย I believe in him, and when heโs ready to talk, I told him, โCall meโ. All I asked him was, he okay?
BN: Where does your faith come from?
If we go out to eat, he watches what everybody orders. If you order fucked-up food, heโll be the first to tell you, โYo, why you eating that shit?โ When we go out to eat Iโm scared to order in front of him โcause I like to eat every damn thing. He watches you and if you order something thatโs wrongโฆ There was one time I would take a picture of the food and send the picture to him. โAlright, good shit.โ He was always concerned with everybody around him โ what they eat โย even if he didnโt know them. If youโre smoking or something, heโd confront you. โYo, why you putting that shit in your body?โ Without a doubt [heโs got integrity]. โYo, thereโs a thing out here called diabetes, man. What you eating that shit for?โ Nobody likes to eat around him โcause heโs a pain in the arse. If he sees me he hands me a big bottle of water. โHow much water you drink today?โ And heโll give it to me. Anyone else in camp โย if theyโre not eating right heโll let them know. That [his health consciousness] is why I donโt believe it.
If they tell me theyโre clean, Iโm going to stick by them. Iโm not the type of guy, โHe could be dirty โย Iโm not going to mess with himโ. โI started this training with you โย Iโm gonna finish it with you.โ
BN: What if heโs found guilty?
If heโs found guilty, I donโt know. Thatโs a good question. I couldnโt answer that because if heโs found guilty, Iโd be in shock. Iโd be in total shock. I just hope everything works out in his favour.
BN: Will you still be getting paid by him?
[Laughs] Hey โ Iโm gonna skip that question.
BN: Are you hopeful of him fighting Joshua again one day?
No. Theyโre not going to fight. Heโs too much of a risk [in the ring].
BN: How much easier had your second training camp with Whyte been?
He was looking very good. We [now] both understand each other better.
BN: Were you expecting more much from Joshua after his second training camp with Derrick James?
Oh yeah, without a doubt. Without a doubt, so weโd prepared for anything and everything.
BN: To what extent is it true that itโs different to train a heavyweight than a fighter in any other weight division?
Itโs kinda true in some aspects, because heavyweights are different in a sense that you canโt train them to move around like a lighter guy. โCause some of these guys are too damn big. So, you gotta make adjustments as a trainer. But you gotta spend a lot of time with that fighter, and see what their weaknesses are; what their strengths are; what theyโre good at; what theyโre not good at.
Iโve had guys that were half the weight of these heavyweights and have the big ego. See, I donโt tolerate that. I tell them they can go take that shit somewhere else. I understand with a fighter โย you the champ or whatever, but, dawg, we gotta meet halfway. Iโve been blessed in that aspect โย where Iโve never had that problem. I mean Iโve had guys try me, and Iโm like, โLook man, you gotta meet me halfway; if youโre not gonna meet me halfway we may as well stop wasting each otherโs time right nowโ.
BN: How did Whyteโs and Joshuaโs performances against Jermaine Franklin compare?
I mean, number one, Franklin can fight. Thatโs number one. Number two, Dillian went into the fight with one hand. One arm. He hurt his left elbow two weeks before the fight. He could barely jab; barely hook. So we had to stick what was working for us. It wasnโt exciting, I admit. It wasnโt what the world expected, I admit. But the key at the end of the day was that we got the W. But you know, his left elbow was in bad shape, and he said he wasnโt pulling out of the fight. He wanted to go through with it, so we had to do what we had to do as the fight went on โ heโs struggling to make adjustments and stick with what was working. It wasnโt the all-out Dillian that everyoneโs used to seeing. You know, no one knew he was injured so we had to do what he had to do.
I saw, maybe, 30 seconds of the [Joshua-Franklin] fight. I saw enough in the 30 seconds. I just saw enough โย thatโs all Iโm gonna say.
I donโt agree with [suggestions Joshuaโs performance against Franklin showed heโs lost his confidence], because if he was lacking confidence, he wouldnโt be in the ring. He has enough money. He can say, โTo hell with boxingโ, so Iโm not gonna say that. A lot of people say this stuff, but if youโve never been in the ring, or never been in the situation that man is in, you canโt make the statement. No one knows what goes through a manโs mind. You know, he has the whole world looking at him. So, itโs a lot of pressure.
Itโs a lot of pressure. He has to let that shit go. โCause no matter what he does, heโs not gonna satisfy everybody.
I was there at the [second Oleksandr Usyk] fight, and I thought he did well while he was letting his hands go. I thought he did very well. But then he stopped punching for whatever reason โ I donโt know โ but I thought he looked good in the second fight at one point. Like, for three or four rounds straight, he was looking very good.

BN: Did it surprise you he changed trainer from Robert Garcia after that performance?ย
Yeah.
BN: Do you agree that Whyte recovers from defeat more effectively than Joshua?
I agree with that 150 per cent, you know? I mean, listen, sometimes you have a defeat โ you gotta take it as a lesson. You canโt sit back and dwell on it; youโll never get over it. And that keeps [a fighter] from getting to that next level.
Now, itโs funny, sometimes weโre sitting there talking, and [Whyte] jokes about his knockout losses. You know what I mean? He goes, โI was waiting for one punch, then he threw another punch, and then when I saw it was too late, then I say โAhhhโโ [laughs]. He jokes about it, you know?
Some fighters โ Iโve been blessed โย you know, some fighters they joke about it, but they know what they gotta do to make it better. You donโt sit and dwell on it.
I canโt explain it, but I can see [that Joshua carries his defeats around with him]. I canโt really put the words together, but I can see it. Iโve been around long enough. Longer than both of โem, so I can see it. And I like Joshua โ I really like him.
BN: How risky is it for him to fight a late replacement this weekend?
I wouldnโt fight. I wouldnโt fight. Listen, heโs got too much to lose. Number one, youโre preparing for one guy โ a dangerous guy. Now theyโre bringing in somebody else. So, your whole state of mind, you gotta regroup that shit, and itโs easier said than done. Youโre the late replacement, so youโre going to be up for him โ but youโre not going to be up for him.ย So, I wouldnโt fight. Iโd be like, โNahโ.
BN: How disappointed were you and Smith to learn about Artur Beterbievโs injury?
I think it was Sunday [July 30] night. I was sitting here, and somebody was saying to me, โWhat are you guys gonna do now that the fight is off?โ. I was like, โWhat are you talking about?โ. And somebody told me the fight was off, so I looked on social media, and boom. Then I called Callum and said we still gonna train tomorrow, so I went to the gym and weโve been training every day. Sparred Monday; sparred Wednesday, and weโre getting down there.
Iโm disappointed, but at the same time we gotta keep our spirits up, in case we do get a fight. You know, we canโt sit back and focus on this. Itโs something that happened, unfortunately, but we gotta keep moving. We just canโt sit back and wait. He understands the game, so, he knows shit happens. Heโs still working hard. I mean he was a little upset at first โ heโs been busting this up, he spent the month in Florida with us [training].
The main thing is, itโs not these two training camps that matter โ whatโs gonna matter is the training camp we have for the fight when the fight is done. That’s whatโs important. These two training camps helped us prepare, yes, but the main training camp is gonna be the one we have when the fightโs rescheduled. Now that itโs not Beterbiev for the moment, we gotta focus on whoever they have next.
BN: As one of Derek Chisoraโs former trainers, how much does it concern you that heโs fighting again this weekend, against Gerald Washington?
To be honest, heโll beat Gerald [laughs]. Heโll beat him; heโs safe with Gerald. I mean, me and Chisora have our conversations, and I know what heโs trying to do, so heโs picking the right guys. Heโs picking the safe guys right now.
Heโs picking the safe guys right now. But heโs told me heโs got a goal โย how many more fights. Me and Chisora talk; I love Chisora, thatโs my man.
I love that guy, man. Heโs a good dude, man. He did a lot for me when I was training him over here during the pandemic โย he looked out for me like family. I just hope that heโs careful โ and whoeverโs working his corner, if they see that shit ainโt going right, donโt be brave with Derekโs blood.
He called me to check on me to make sure that Dillian is taking care of me [laughs]. Iโm like, โYeah, Iโm goodโ. Yeah, Chisoraโs my man. I love Chisora โ heโs a good dude. So, we donโt talk much โ he just called me to make sure they were taking care of me. Make sure they got me sushi; make sure Callum was taking care of me. He always does that. Wherever Iโm at he calls me and checks on me when Iโm in the UK.