FRANK and George Warren sit at the centre of a long table in an upmarket fish restaurant a short walk south of Piccadilly Circus.
Flanked by the DAZN VP Alfie Sharman and their CEO of growth markets Pete Oliver, the indomitable father-son promotional duo are in the west end to explain their new deal with the broadcasting platform. It was the worst kept secret in boxing but the cat is now out of the bag.
Warren Sr is now deep into his fifth decade of promoting boxing and, given the emergence of Riyadh Season and now this link up with DAZN on what is only described as a ‘multi-year agreement’, you could argue the 72-year-old is in a stronger position than ever.
George, meanwhile, has emerged as one of the shrewdest operators in boxing at its most senior levels and crucially facilitated relationships with Queensberry’s rivals despite an apparent cold war on the ground.
Riyadh Season has brought together broadcasters in this country like never before, meaning all the major shows are now available on Sky, DAZN and TNT, the broadcaster that Queensberry are leaving in order to start their new life on The App on April 1 next year. And, as George Warren explains, it was this proximity to DAZN that paved the way for the new deal.
“It was no secret that our relationship with TNT had been hugely successful and we were doing extremely well,” he says. “But there was a period left on the agreement and you get to a period of time where your agreement is close to expiring and conversations started.
“I would say it was a good opportunity for us and DAZN to get to know each other, the fact we’d been operating jointly on the ground for Riyadh Season. We’ve had 12 months working alongside them, unofficially but through production and operationally out there in Riyadh and you can just feel that synergy. I know it’s the right thing for our business.”
As what is left of the seabass and octopus is cleared away, the temperature rises. Boxing fans have long memories and it was not so long ago that Warren, at the time at loggerheads with Eddie Hearn and Matchroom, had famously labelled the platform ‘Dead Zone’. Of course, no sooner had the announcement been made, social media was awash with those old interview clips.
George says: “I think the first thing to say is that it’s a completely different channel to when they first launched and what they’ve done in such a short amount of time speaks volumes. They invest in the sport. as we move on and evolve in sport and the media and how people digest content. If I was to ask someone to name the top five shows that were on British TV this year, how many of them were on Netflix, Amazon, Prime or Disney+? How many were on BBC?
“People have to stop looking narrow-mindedly in the UK.”
Frank adds: “And traditionally”.
DAZN are, and always have been, famously secretive when it comes to their subscription numbers. “We don’t disclose,” Sharman says. It is almost impossible, therefore, to gauge how many people are watching the sport on The App, or are even aware that it is happening at all.
It is a little over 30 years since 18 million people tuned in to watch Nigel Benn and Chris Eubank draw their rematch at Old Trafford on ITV but when Anthony Joshua’s iconic 2017 victory over Wladimir Klitschko at Wembley Stadium secured less than one 10th of that number in pay-per-view sales it was hailed as an almighty success.
Given DAZN’s stance on releasing their numbers, it is impossible to know what success means for them, but the fear for some boxing fans is that Queensberry Promotions’ move to DAZN might nudge the sport further away from the casual consumer.
Frank Warren, however, disagrees entirely. “When I went from ITV to Sky, they had three million subscribers and everyone said, ‘What are you doing? It will be the end of boxing’,” he points out. “That’s what they said back then and who did we build on there? One of the biggest stars in boxing, Ricky Hatton.
“You underestimate the public’s appetite for boxing. Look at the Wembley show and all the other ones we’re doing. You’ve got to look at what the public want and the public want boxing. We have built at Queensberry one of the biggest boxing success stories in the last God knows how many years.”
As ever, he makes a compelling case but there is no denying that the dazzling success of the English Premier League went hand in hand with the growth of Sky. It meant football fans who had already shelled out for Sky Sports had easy access to the likes of Naseem Hamed and Hatton without having to pay any extra.
The Premier League rights are currently spread across Sky Sports, TNT and Prime Video while the BBC shows highlights on Match of the Day. So can DAZN ever be a success in the UK without getting in on that action and the swathe of paying punters that comes with it?
“We would view it as already successful,” Oliver counters quickly.
“I guess we’re building a global boxing product. We did the same thing with the NFL, which is available in 200 countries so we view the boxing business as not just a UK business but international too. So it’s already at scale both here in the UK and the US but also with customers in Australia, New Zealand and Europe.
“The answer to your question is absolutely but it’s a different kind of business, we’re building an app and a service specifically for boxing fans and it’s a global product.”
When Hearn first announced his famous ‘billion dollar deal’ with DAZN in 2018, one of the main reasons he cited for leaving Sky was that Matchroom’s new home would allow them to promote globally. Now six years on, George Warren agrees with Oliver that they are now thinking far bigger than the UK.
“As a business you’ve got to sometimes look outside of your own territory,” he explains. “What they have is the ability to unlock a global footprint and that for us is a huge driving factor for our business and ultimately for our fighters.
“We’re not focused on a particular territory. If there are opportunities to do things outside of the UK, as we’re currently doing in the Middle East, we go where we can see opportunity. We have a very exciting opportunity in the future with guys like Zhilei Zhang in China. It’s not a focus on territory, it’s about the opportunity for us to do what we’re doing in the UK but on a more global platform.”
Sharman explains that DAZN are on course for 185 fight nights this year and there is a ‘minimum play’ of 150 next year. He also insisted there will be no price rise for customers despite the addition of Queensberry Promotions to their roster.
So, of the 150 shows, are Queensberry obliged to stage a certain number of them? “Yes,” George smiles. “Can you tell us what it is?” “No,” he responds.
Frank steps in. “But it’s more than we’ve been doing,” he says.
“This is going to be a success story. That’s what it’s going to be. This is a positive move for us in Queensberry and certainly for DAZN who are now with the best promotional business. That means it’s positive news for the punters or viewers or whatever way you want to look at it. All you’re going to get is bigger and better fights – that’s the bottom line of it.
“Everyone can have their view on it but I know what this is going to be. I’ve done this a long time. I go back to the poxy days of one TV channel, the BBC, and ITV came in and all the crap about not having live boxing because it will kill the sport. Then they said don’t go to Sky but then Ricky Hatton becomes the biggest attraction.
“That’s where we are: This is another success story and it will be a major one.”
